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Post by avarice on Jul 28, 2017 10:11:09 GMT -5
Just now saw that there was a second statement in English released (thanks, zero) and wow. Just wow. What fucking animals. I feel ashamed to have ever liked this band.
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Post by jawbreaker on Jul 28, 2017 10:44:34 GMT -5
Yo the first statement from the girls says that girl 1 wasn't even asked if she wants to sleep with him, but if she got asked he took the "no" as a "change my mind " or that she suddenly got penetrated without asking while she had turned her back to him and that is from my point of view pretty hard to swallow. Also you cannot go on stage, propagate feminism and the fight for it, playing songs with lyrics (which Larissa wrote) for the fight of feminism and against the patriarchate while you be such a prich to women. Abusing them in your relationship, exchange nudes with your friend laughing about "how dumb all the girls are, but hot" and stuff. Obviously I don't speak German, trying to decipher the statement from a free internet was a difficult process haha. To my understanding, it seemed like girl 1 decided long after there was consensual sex that something he did without asking wasn't cool. To be crude, it sounded like he put it in her ass during consensual relationship sex without asking and she told him later that it wasn't okay. If what you are saying is the truth however, then you are 100% correct, it's fucking dispicable and unforgivable. Regardless of what happened in the bedroom, FUCK this band for pushing feminism so hard and not following a word of it. Thanks for the clarification. This whole situation just disgusts me. These guys need some serious help.
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Post by ꧁꧂ on Jul 28, 2017 11:56:14 GMT -5
I tried to translate the first callout of the girls into english and I hope I did it better than google. If someone looks over it and sees a mistake don't hesitate to correct me. Putting it in a spoiler because it's longer than I thought. Wolf Down outing [trigger warning: rape, sexual violence]
To all comrades, wolf down fans and everyone who is involved: don't get close to Tobias, one of the guitarists of Wolf Down. Multiple women raise accusations regarding sexual attacks against him. You can read 2 experiences from different involved victims down below. Their intention is to inform about the risks of a relationship with him, to denounce his actions and to disguise the band Wolf Down for what they are: A circle of sexist men.
Woman I: I was ca. one year in a relationship with Tobias. It's hard to remember the exact length, because we had something "undefined" first, what actually was kind of a monogamous relationship, then no contact for some time because i broke it up, and after that we had a clear defined open relationship. Alltogether it was roundabout one year, or a little bit more.
I have a fucked up background. growing up with sexual abuse caused through different men in my family. half a year before i met tobias i got raped by a acquintance while i was passed out, who used his chance. i woke up with the feel of his dick inside my vagina. the life as women sucks. there were no consequences for the men of my past. wether my tries to talk to them, nor to get help fromt he people around me succeeded. when i told them directly what they did they always said "what are you talking about? I did nothing, I only stroked you" (why you stroke an 8y/o girl on her genitals until she bleeds?) or "that's not true, you weren't unconscious" (sure that's why i didn't moved nor talked for minutes). I want that it takes a different route this time. It has to. I have to protect the women who come after me, and I have to protect myself.
The whole time with tobias was full of sexual violence and sexual actions without consens. I don't want to get into detail, because I do not think that's my part as the victim to be taken serious. many people who read this text will know who I am and I don't wanna give them the satisfaction, to know, in which ways I got humiliated. I only say so much: for tobias did not ask, but if he did for him a "no" was a "change my mind", he ignored it when I cried, told him that it hurts and it isn't fun for me, or (and tha also happened a few times) was vomiting in my mouth. He also sometimes didn'T gave me the opportunity to say "no", because he was penetrating me suddenly even when I was showing him my back. I was afraid for a long time to tell him that his behaviour is disgusting, because I was growing up with the thought of having sex with men is my obligation. That you're not allowed to speak out your wished and claims. That you just let them do.
Since Tobias didn'T handled me well in other parts of the relationship too (i have numerous examples for this too, but to protect my own privacy I don't go into detail) i broke up the contact after ca. half a year. i moved to a new city where i met the women who wrote the second experience. we gave each other power and reflected together about our sexual past with tobias and came to the conclusion: we both feel very ill due to this. only because of the feeling of not being alone i was able to give him a strict call (out) after ca. a month of not talking to him. he justified himself, apologized, but more like he's sorry if that was terrible due to my past, for example to get punched (slapped?) without permission. he didn't came to the idea that it sucks for every person to be a victim of sexual violence. We were a couple after that again tho. in this "second half" he was behaving more correct, but we also hardly had sex anymore, because he did not feel like it, because he didn't had fun while having consens and respect for me. 3 months before i broke up, i was bringing up that topic again and cried strongly. He justified himself.
When I finally broke up with him (in April) i told him that i HAD to break up due my mental health. That a relationship with him is incompatible and that during the months with him my mental heath got worse and worse. during the end of the relationship i had more and more flashbacks of things he did i could not process. i told him on the phone what exactly he did. i cried strongly and went vomiting after that.
a few days later i was meeting up with him in berlin (thats where he lives), to talk. i wanted to give him the chance to learn. I had hope that if i stay in contact with him, i can avoid that he behaves like this again. i also was afraid that i get kicked out of the clique if i'd affront him (which says alot about the wolf down clique). I told him we could stay friends and we talked mutltiple hours about what happened. i told him exactly: what u did was sex without any consens, per definition rape, even if that word isn't easy to say even more in a relationship. i told him he is standing in a row with the men who raped me in my past. it was hard to swallow for him and a lot he was saying was just justifying himself. i cried strongly, we hugged - thats the latest when he HAD to knew that he fucked up big time, and was hurting someone really bad.
that friendship didn't worked out tho. tobias reacted irritated when i tried to talk with him about this topic after some time passed. he meant he couldn'T do anything than say that he changed. and that i had to close the case sometime. i was feeling really bad around this time and i had to fight with flashbacks and suicidal thoughts. also there were days when the thoughts of all this and him were so bad that i had to barf. we were chatting again and he was getting mad that i cant end that topic already. he wrote he isnt to blame for what happened because "as a bavarian villageboy no one always told him about consens". that was the final straw and i blocked him everywhere. because he realized i made a screenshot of the last statement of him, he tried to apologize halfhearted, but he couldn't reach to me anymore.
im done with this men and all the men like him. if he had appreciated and recessed my will to reflect and process this together we could still be friends and i didn't had to write this text. but that i had to tell him what respectful behaviour is and that he can't shuffle out of responsibility when he raped someone was something i couldn't bear with after a few weeks.he behaves so madly disrespectful, wrotes to my best friend and hassles her, to get information about me and sometimes he said he dont even know whats wrong (i told him multiple times what he did in detail + he was there, doing it). i chose this last instance out of despair and rage. Despair, because i dont believe he changed and i dont want that he hurts or traumatized more women. rage because i was protecting him for way too long and it's time to out him for what he is: a rapist and misogynist.
Woman II: I met tobias 3 years ago when i just tuned 18. he was key personality in my life from the beginning, because he was my first political contact and the one of the first man i had sex with. that brought me into a position of dependence from the start. tobias didnt only enjoy to "model" me into the political person he thought was right, but also my sexual inexperience was important for him. he could tell me that everything he wanted to do is "normal".
That started with our first sex, where he slapped me - without asking. i wasnt even able to question that. about half a year later i spoke with a friend about that, who slept with him too and who was complaining about the same thing and more. but i too want to renounce as many details as possible.
He was acting more correct than with women I per se - he asked for my consens most of the time. my answer to everything was "yes" because i wanted to give him everything of what he gave me the feel is normal. it's hard to describe this feeling into words, and i dont want to talk so explicit about sexual violence as woman I (except that slap from the first sex). but for me, that what happened between tobias and me is a problem that exists in a lot of heterosexual relationships and i criticize that due to inherent and from tobi generated "machtasymmetrie" (quote @zerotoleranxe: i really dont know how to translate this) i lost a lot of space to say "no". his distorted view of women was showing in our relationship (which in fragments extends to years) again and again. i often felt used as a sexobject which is only as good as "dirty" she is (also compared to other woman which didn't satisfy his desires enough). he also put woman I under pressure with a reference to me: i always liked everything, for me it was okay...and woman I wouldn't get turned on through his dominance(humiliation)fetish only because she is mentally broken. only to be allowed near tobi because i was "the woman who does everything he wants" has taken me the possibility to show him borders. I hope that due to his outing women with similar problems feel encouraged to talk about it or get out of abusive relationships.
the absurd in the relationship with tobias was that in one hand he was playing my savior and teacher who told me what sexism is and how i have to emancipate myself and on the other hand led me to say "yes" to everything he wanted from me, becazse i wasn't feeling like a autonomous and strong person. in the relationship with tobias was a lot of emotional abuse which was going hand in hand with the sexual aspect so i want to participate on this outing. i want to warn my (female) comrades.
and i also want to warn you of the wolf down. i also had contact to the drummer, sven, for a few months. in this time he was proven himself as a strong sexist due to the things he said and how he acted. i wont go into details to protect the involved victims.
fight cops, nazis and wolf down!
TOGETHER we demand that wolf down will take their consequences whatever they might be. Sure thing for us is that we will evaluate them how they react to this. we lost patience with sexists and rapists. If wolf down will try to justify their behaviour, the behaviour of their members or to deny or to ignore the accusations, they will not be undisturbed. the time of the happy mencircle is over. more and more women are showing their solidarity with us, are disappointed of this so called "political" band, and won't swallow their rage. Expect that concerts will be disturbed, people in wolf down hoodie will be adressed and that this band will not be celebrated anymore. Expect resistance against your sexistic state. contra la violencia machista, autodefensa feminista!
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Post by thematster1 on Jul 28, 2017 12:05:30 GMT -5
Without Larissa this band is just another dime a Dozen euro heavy hardcore. I loved the first two ep's and sftp. New stuff not so much....
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Post by Glitch on Jul 28, 2017 12:06:05 GMT -5
As a woman in hardcore I can only tell you that there's a reason I don't date hardcore-guys anymore. This sort of behaviour is very common unfortunately. But reading some of the comments here (from men) about this incident is great! Good to see that there are also lots of decent dudes around still <3 Zerotoleranxe, echt toll, dass es offensichtlich doch Männer gibt die begriffen haben um was es geht und sich sogar noch die Mühe machen es anderen zu erklären. Nachdem ich fast kotzen musste ab gewissen Kommentaren auf Instagram und Facebook ist das doch schön. Danke. I think that's probably a great decision on yoir part haha. All of my female friends in hardcore have come to a similar conclusion. This saddens me, because hardcore is the music that thaught me to live a positive and openminded life. It really frustrates me that it's also the home of a lot of close-minded douches only in it for the macho stuff.
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Post by avarice on Jul 28, 2017 12:18:30 GMT -5
I think that's probably a great decision on yoir part haha. All of my female friends in hardcore have come to a similar conclusion. This saddens me, because hardcore is the music that thaught me to live a positive and openminded life. It really frustrates me that it's also the home of a lot of close-minded douches only in it for the macho stuff. Some fucking moron I went to high school with who still exclusively listens to beatdown deathcore just posted something the other day about how "if you're not at the show to crowd kill, get the fuck out". Let me tell you I have never seen that fucking pussy at a single show or in a single pit. So many douchebags use it to mask their cowardice and weakness of mind, it's sickening. I love to mosh but avoid violence at every possible turn. Hardcore is about ethics, morals, justice. I despise how these dumb, fake ass tough guys think they have a place here with us.
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Post by stayxgold on Jul 28, 2017 12:20:43 GMT -5
I think that's probably a great decision on yoir part haha. All of my female friends in hardcore have come to a similar conclusion. This saddens me, because hardcore is the music that thaught me to live a positive and openminded life. It really frustrates me that it's also the home of a lot of close-minded douches only in it for the macho stuff. That's kinda what I meant with the lost "spirit of hardcore" a while back... I get more openmindedness (whut?) at any pop concert really
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Post by Misanthropekl on Jul 28, 2017 13:14:14 GMT -5
This saddens me, because hardcore is the music that thaught me to live a positive and openminded life. It really frustrates me that it's also the home of a lot of close-minded douches only in it for the macho stuff. That's kinda what I meant with the lost "spirit of hardcore" a while back... I get more openmindedness (whut?) at any pop concert really I've met some of the best people through hardcore, but in that I've also met scumbags like Tobias. im sorry that you and anyone has to go through this kind of abuse (or abuse at all) it's not something that should happen full stop let alone in a scene that is supposed to be inclusive
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Post by ꧁꧂ on Jul 28, 2017 14:04:32 GMT -5
Edited the OP with the chronological order of the statements everyone involved have made. This still makes me so sick...
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Post by v9733xa on Jul 28, 2017 14:22:11 GMT -5
This saddens me, because hardcore is the music that thaught me to live a positive and openminded life. It really frustrates me that it's also the home of a lot of close-minded douches only in it for the macho stuff. Some fucking moron I went to high school with who still exclusively listens to beatdown deathcore just posted something the other day about how "if you're not at the show to crowd kill, get the fuck out". Let me tell you I have never seen that fucking pussy at a single show or in a single pit. So many douchebags use it to mask their cowardice and weakness of mind, it's sickening. I love to mosh but avoid violence at every possible turn. Hardcore is about ethics, morals, justice. I despise how these dumb, fake ass tough guys think they have a place here with us. Meatheads gonna meathead.
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Post by avarice on Jul 28, 2017 14:31:56 GMT -5
Some fucking moron I went to high school with who still exclusively listens to beatdown deathcore just posted something the other day about how "if you're not at the show to crowd kill, get the fuck out". Let me tell you I have never seen that fucking pussy at a single show or in a single pit. So many douchebags use it to mask their cowardice and weakness of mind, it's sickening. I love to mosh but avoid violence at every possible turn. Hardcore is about ethics, morals, justice. I despise how these dumb, fake ass tough guys think they have a place here with us. Meatheads gonna meathead. He's a skinny white guy tatted from head-to-toe who thinks he's a gangster and is trying to become a tattoo artist because he's legitimately really stupid. Definitely the first person to post on facebook about getting used by "bitches" and then bragging about how he doesn't need them because he's career focused. True trash.
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Post by chainbreaker on Jul 28, 2017 15:42:02 GMT -5
i guess im late, too busy working.
but let me get this straight "non consensual sex"... isn't that rape?
So i'm assuming the people involved have gone to the police? As far as i'm aware.. rape is illegal?
I don't really know this band. Its awful that the other people knew about it before? so wut if ur bros. Real bros tell real bros when they fucked up. u gotta pay the toll when the reaper calls init.
I hope the women involved find solace in the fact that the man/men will probably never be able to successfully play music again(im assuming thats something they love to do) and that they have come out of this stronger. i pray that at least one of them goes to the police now as they have quite a few testimonies.
There isn't anyone in this thread defending the band is there? Pls @ me if they are so I can IP ban them out of existence.
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Post by ꧁꧂ on Jul 28, 2017 16:10:29 GMT -5
i guess im late, too busy working. but let me get this straight "non consensual sex"... isn't that rape? So i'm assuming the people involved have gone to the police? As far as i'm aware.. rape is illegal? I don't really know this band. Its awful that the other people knew about it before? so wut if ur bros. Real bros tell real bros when they fucked up. u gotta pay the toll when the reaper calls init. I hope the women involved find solace in the fact that the man/men will probably never be able to successfully play music again(im assuming thats something they love to do) and that they have come out of this stronger. i pray that at least one of them goes to the police now as they have quite a few testimonies. There isn't anyone in this thread defending the band is there? Pls @ me if they are so I can IP ban them out of existence. I'm assuming they didn't have gone to the police. I guess it is because they're all in the antifa and more anti-cop. They just wanted to stop the band being quiet allthough they knew and warn others. And no one's defending the band so far which is a good thing, because the comments on fb/ig are straight cancer.
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Post by chainbreaker on Jul 28, 2017 16:20:12 GMT -5
I guess it is because they're all in the antifa and more anti-cop. So since they are anti-police they won't seek help to get justice? That doesn't sound ideal....
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Post by ꧁꧂ on Jul 28, 2017 16:32:30 GMT -5
I guess it is because they're all in the antifa and more anti-cop. So since they are anti-police they won't seek help to get justice? That doesn't sound ideal.... I don't know, maybe they did. There's no information about that. But I know a few people who have that mindset.
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